The Killer In The Attic

Milwaukee Magazine - https://www.milwaukeemag.com/the-legend-of-milwaukees-most-infamous-love-triangle/

All That’s Interesting - https://allthatsinteresting.com/dolly-oesterreich

LAist - https://laist.com/news/la-history/hidden-history-of-la-the-murderous-lover-who-lived-in-a-silver-lake-attic

LA Times - https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-03-20-me-44878-story.html

You're listening to an Oh No Media podcast. Hey everybody, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Payton Moreland.

And I'm Garrett Moreland.

And he's the husband.

I'm the husband.

If you are listening on Spotify or Apple and don't actually follow the show, can you please click that follow button? And then also turn onautomatic downloads. Just a great way to support us; it really, really helps us out. So please pause right now and go do that.

Okay, I hope you did it and you're back because we are ready to jump into Garrett's 10 seconds.

Well, we had our live show in Utah. Thank you to everyonewho came out. We really appreciate it. Thank you for supporting us. We had agreat time and we hope you had a great time too. Just kind of updatingeveryone, my home gym should be done next week. We'll see. I'll get somepictures going. I got all the equipment. I'm pretty excited. I think I'm goingto be a bodybuilder now. So, that's kind of what I got going on over here.That's my 10 seconds. We've just kind of been on tour, doing our live shows, recordingepisodes, and yeah, that's kind of what we got going on.

Okay, our sources for this episode are Milwaukee Magazine, AllThat's Interesting, LAist, and LA Times. Now, Garrett, before I start tellingtoday’s story, I want to walk through a hypothetical situation with you.

Okay.

So, imagine we're home together. It's just the two of us, noone else is over.

Like always.

We’re having an argument, as couples do.

Like never.

Like never. Suddenly, you look up and there's another man inour house holding a gun. He's just standing there. We're in an argument, youlook up, and there's a guy there.

Wait, where’s the guy? I need to know. Is he upstairs? Thebalcony?

No, he's in the room with us.

But you said I'm looking up, so is he on the ceiling?

I mean you look up from talking to me.

Okay, got it. You look over.

Okay, there we go.

And he's just standing there. You didn't even hear the frontdoor open. You don't know how this man got inside. And weirdest of all, thisisn't some random stranger. This is someone that you used to know, who last youheard lived on the opposite side of the country and had nothing to do witheither of us. This is someone you haven't thought about in years, just a randomacquaintance. But here he is, like he just appeared, and he's armed and he'sinside your house. What would you do?

Oh, I'm killing him.

Okay, well that was a fast answer. Did you think I was goingto think you know this guy?

No.

You're not going to say, "What are you doing?"

No, my first thought process is guns blazing. I'm all in.I'm running at him. I don't even care.

You don't even ask a question?

No questions asked. No words need to be spoken. I'm fullsprinting, like full sprinting straight at him. Get out of my house.

If he has a gun, right? He’s got a gun.

Yeah, yeah. No questions asked. If he didn’t have a gun, forsure I'd ask him questions. But if he's got a gun pointed at me, it's do ordie.

What if it's not pointed at you? What if he's just holdingit down?

It's fight or flight.

Flight or fight?

That's what I said, right?

You said flight or fight. I've just never heard them theother way. I guess it could be right.

It is, I guess, the correct words. I've just never heardthem in that order.

Yeah, it's fight or flight.

Okay, well you keep thinking about that a little bit.

Okay, I'll keep thinking about it as we get into it.

On August 22, 1922, people all over the Los Angelesneighborhood of Silver Lake called the police to report that they'd heardgunshots. Again, this is 1922. Specifically, the sounds seemed to be comingfrom the home of a married couple named Fred and Dolly Oesterreich. They livedin a nice multi-story home overlooking Sunset Boulevard and had been there forfour years. Until tonight, there had never been any major disturbances at thehome, so it was really unsettling for the neighbors to hear these gunshots.

The police showed up and the scene they found was baffling.Fred, the man of the house, was dead in the living room, lying in a puddle ofhis own blood. He had been hit twice in the chest and once in the head. Hiswife, Dolly, was locked in a closet. The lock was latched from the outside, soshe had no way of getting out before the police arrived. She didn't seem hurt,so the detectives got her out and questioned her right away.

The neighbors had heard gunshots, and when the policeresponded, they found her husband dead on the living room floor. They asked herwhat happened. Dolly said that she was standing in front of the closet hangingup a fur coat when a strange man broke into the house. She assumed he was thereto rob the place, but she didn't get a chance to see what went down. The robberhad come in, pushed her into the closet, and locked the door. Dolly heard thegunshots go off while she was still in the closet, but of course, she didn'tactually see her husband get shot. She just waited until the police came torescue her.

This story is odd for a couple of reasons. First, Fred'swatch was missing, and it looked like the intruder took it off his wrist aftershooting him. But otherwise, none of his or Dolly's valuables were taken. So ifthis was a robbery, what did they take?

Plus, the police were able to determine that the murderweapon was a .25 caliber pistol. That's a very lightweight gun. For this nextpoint, I need to remind you that this was 1922, and people weren't particularlyenlightened about gender at the time. .25 caliber pistols were actuallyconsidered women's guns in 1922 because they were small and dainty. It wasn't agun that typically a man would use. The detectives just couldn't believe that amale robber, especially one capable of murder, would use such a feminineweapon.

And again, we're in 1922. Picture him holding a big bazooka,walking around, literally, because just a dainty gun doesn't make sense. But Imean, that helped narrow everything down back then.

Right, and that's why I'm even bringing it up, because thisis the avenue the police are taking. They pressed Dolly a little more, tryingto see if she had a motive to hurt or kill her husband. They asked her if sheand Fred ever fought, and she answered very abruptly and firmly,"No." The fact that she was so adamant actually made her look lesstrustworthy. If her relationship with Fred really was so healthy and good, shewouldn't have gotten so defensive about the question. After all, we know evenhappy couples fight sometimes. However, she insisted that they never arguedabout anything for their entire marriage. She was like, "No, we've neverbeen in one argument."

Look, Payton and I love each other, we have a very healthymarriage, and things are great. But people are just going to bicker; this isgoing to happen every once in a while.

I actually know someone who claims this exact thing onInstagram.

No, that is completely false. Hot take: 100% false. There isno way you're married to somebody for more than, let's pick a number—seven plusyears, six plus years, five plus years—and you've never once bickered ordisagreed on something. It's humanly impossible.

Maybe she claims they disagree but they've never argued?

She says they've never fought.

I guess, what's the line though, right? So many people havedifferent lines of what fighting means. I feel like if you've never got yourfeelings hurt...

Yeah, no, that's impossible. You've never disagreed? You'vehurt each other's feelings even if you don't mean to. I mean, people's emotionsjust get the best of them sometimes. I'm not saying that you have to scream ateach other, which I don't think is healthy, but sometimes if your feelings gethurt or you misunderstand each other, you're going to get defensive. And to me,that's fighting, right?

Agree. Sorry, this is kind of off-topic a bit. I just had tonip this in the bud because no way that's possible.

Is it nip it in the butt or the bud?

I don't know. I thought it was butt, but maybe it's bud.

I think I've heard both, so I'm not sure.

All right, back in action. So, it's all definitely enough tomake police suspicious but not enough to actually arrest her or name her as asuspect. The biggest point in Dolly's favor is the fact that she had been shutin the closet from the outside. There was no possible way for her to putherself in there and lock the door of the closet. With no real evidence toprove Dolly is lying, the police focus on trying to identify the intruder. Theinvestigation basically stalls right away—there just isn't much to go off of.

Apparently, Dolly just can't stand to live in the same housewhere her husband was murdered. So, at some point, she moves to a new place.It's another decent-sized house, still in LA, and it has an attic. But I don'twant to make it sound like she's completely devastated by grief, because beforetoo long, Dolly is ready to move on. Within just a few months, she beginsdating a lawyer named Herman S. Shapiro. He makes a lot of money in his job asan attorney, but he also works long hours and doesn't have a lot of time tofocus on Dolly. This is a problem for her because she wants a boyfriend who ismore attentive.

So, in no time at all, Dolly starts cheating on Herman. Hernew boyfriend is a businessman named Roy Clum. He's originally from Milwaukee,which is where Dolly lived before she and Fred moved to LA together. They musthave some things in common, given their shared backgrounds. They get along wellfor just under a year, but in the summer of 1923, Dolly breaks up with Roy.This is her lover, and he does not take the rejection well.

In fact, on July 12th, he went straight to the police andsaid, "I need to tell you about Dolly and her husband's murder."

All right, good old Dolly, let's hear it.

Don't piss off your lover.

Specifically, Roy went in and said that while he and Dollywere still together, she gave him a .25 caliber pistol one day and asked if hecould get rid of it for her. She told him that it had nothing to do with Fred'smurder, but she knew it looked bad for her to own a gun that was the samecaliber as the one that killed her husband. So, she wanted Roy to make itdisappear before the police could find it and ask her some uncomfortablequestions. According to him, he didn't ask anymore about the weapon; he justtried to find a way to destroy it for her. Roy actually threw the gun in the LaBrea Tar Pits, figuring there was no way anyone would ever find it there.

He was mostly right. Nobody had bothered to look in the pitsprior to this point, but after they got Roy's tip, the police searched thestinky, smelly grounds dotted with puddles of water and asphalt. And they foundthe gun.

Oh my gosh.

The problem is that the chemicals at the tar pits are verycorrosive, and the firearm at this point is badly damaged. It's in badcondition, and there's no way to prove that this is the same gun that killedFred.

I'm sure the serial number was, uh, do you know if it wasstill on there? You're not sure?

I have no idea. I just know they couldn't prove it, and Iknow that they now couldn't prove that Roy's story was true. For all the policeknow, he's making things up to hurt Dolly. He's offended that she broke up withhim, and this gun might have come from somewhere else entirely.

Except, this story about the police finding a firearm at thetar pits made it to the news. One of Dolly's neighbors actually saw the story,and this inspired them to go to the police with another tip. They came in andsaid, "I saw you found the gun. Dolly has a second gun that she's alsotrying to get rid of."

Dolly's loaded, man.

The neighbor said that Dolly gave it to them and they buriedit in their yard for her. A search team went straight to this neighbor's house,dug in the spot they described, and sure enough, they found a pistol buried inthe hole. Unfortunately, this one was just as corroded as the one from the tarpits. All those months sitting in a damp hole meant it was rusty and worn down,and there was still nothing to prove it had anything to do with Fred's murder.

But let's be real, two separate people coming forward sayingDolly has tried to destroy guns that fit the exact description of the murderweapon in her husband's murder is definitely suspicious. It seems prettyobvious, right?

So, when the police asked Dolly about the firearms, sheadmitted, "Okay, yeah, I did try to get rid of those guns," butexplained that it was for the same reason she told Roy. She said she ownedthese .25 caliber pistols for perfectly innocent reasons, but when Fred wasmurdered and she knew the police might suspect her, she didn't want to becaught with two weapons that might appear to implicate her. So, she panickedand called on Roy and her neighbor to help her.

The police were like, "Okay, yeah, we're not buyingyour story," and roughly a year after Fred's murder, Dolly was actuallyarrested.

Her boyfriend, Herman, agrees to represent her as herattorney.

Dolly must be hot, that's all I'm saying. Dolly's a doll.

So, Herman, whom she was cheating on with Roy (who thenturned her in), is like, "Yes, sweetie, I will represent you in yourhusband's murder case." While Dolly is in jail waiting for her case to goto trial, she asks Herman to do a very odd favor for her. Dolly wants Herman togo to the store, buy a bunch of groceries, and leave them in her house. Butremember, this is a house that's empty. She doesn't have any living familymembers or roommates who'd eat that food.

Of course, Herman thinks this is a weird request and demandsDolly explain what's going on. He's like, "Why do you need groceriesdelivered to your house if you're not living there?” This is why you just useDoorDash, Dolly.

And she's like, "Well, someone's staying with me.Someone she'd never mentioned to Herman before."

She says it's her brother. She says he fell on hard times,he didn't have anywhere else to live, and he was living in her attic.

Red flags all over the place.

And as for why she never thought to tell Herman that herbrother was literally living in her attic, she's like, "Well, he's hiding.He's hiding, like he can't be seen by the public." She doesn't tell himwhat the reason is. She's like, "It's not my business to tell, but he justhas to hide up there."

Honestly, her explanation makes no sense, but like I saidbefore, Herman is nothing if not a loyal boyfriend. At this point, he obviouslyknows about the cheating, and he's like, "I'm still going to representyou." So he buys all the food that she asked for, and he drives it to herhouse. He goes into Dolly's bedroom and climbs into her closet, just like Dollyrequested. Then, he taps twice on the ceiling, which is supposedly like asecret way that Dolly and her brother would communicate. It's a sign for himthat it's safe to come downstairs.

And sure enough, after Herman pounds on the ceiling, astrange man climbs down out of the attic.

That is so scary.

That is weird, yeah.

His name is Otto Sanhuber, and as soon as he sees Herman, helooks very relieved. Otto has been all alone in that house for a very long timeand really needed someone to talk to. The attic is dark, small, and stuffy,with no bathroom—so Otto has been going to the bathroom in a bucket. Thereisn't much to keep him occupied either; there's a shelf of books and atypewriter for him to write down his ideas. Ironically, during this reclusivelife in Dolly's attic, Otto actually published a couple of short stories. Whenyou have nothing to do all day but write, you might get pretty good at it. It'sclear he's been up there for months, so he's had plenty of time to hone hiscraft.

Needless to say, this is no way to live, and Otto seemsdesperately lonely. When Herman shows up, Otto is like, "Can you just talkto me? I really need some company." He tells Herman all about how he cameto live with Dolly and all the history they have together.

It's hard to say what Herman thinks of all this, but afterhis conversation with Otto, he posts bail to get Dolly out of jail. He uses allhis legal knowledge to fight the murder charges she's facing. Herman is verygood at his job and convinces the state to drop all the charges, arguing thereis no proof or enough evidence to take this to trial. Thanks to Herman's hardwork, Dolly goes free. They decide to move in together and live in the samehouse where Otto is now living in the attic.

I think I know what's going on. I think Otto did it. I thinkDolly's hiding him. I think Dolly was obviously involved and had planned athing or something similar. I think I should be a detective.

All I'm saying is if I started dating you, and then you gotarrested for murder, and I still believed you didn't commit the murder but youwere like, 'Hey, I need you to go deliver food to my sister who lives in myattic full-time and I've never mentioned,' you need to divorce me. I'm notmoving in with you, for sure. Mr. attorney, what are you doing?

So they move in together, and Otto continues to dwellupstairs while Dolly and Herman share the downstairs. Then, after seven years,she and Herman finally break up. Much like what happened with Roy before,Herman takes the end of the relationship very hard. It wasn't mutual, and hedecides to go to the police, telling them that even though he worked tirelesslyto get those charges dropped seven years ago, he now believes that Dolly killedher husband.

Seriously, Dolly has to figure something out. She has tostop pissing off these guys.

She's in a bad position right now.

Fred was naturally suspicious about Dolly's supposed"half-brother" visiting every day when he wasn't home. This suspiciongrew, but Dolly managed to keep the affair with Otto hidden, convincing Fredthat the visits were innocent.

As Otto explained to Herman, the situation escalated in 1922when Fred and Dolly moved to Los Angeles. Dolly insisted that Otto come alongand continue living secretly in the attic. Otto's isolation grew more extreme,and his dependence on Dolly intensified. Their affair continued clandestinely,but Fred's suspicions about his wife's fidelity deepened.

According to Otto, on the night of August 22, 1922, thetension between Dolly and Fred reached a boiling point. They had a heatedargument, and Otto, fearing for Dolly's safety, emerged from the attic armedwith a .25 caliber pistol. In the ensuing confrontation, Otto shot and killedFred. To cover up the murder, Dolly and Otto staged the scene to look like abotched burglary. Otto locked Dolly in the closet, taking the key with him, tomake it appear as though intruders had trapped her.

Herman's revelation of this story to the police, coupledwith the discovery of Otto living in Dolly's attic, painted a bizarre andincriminating picture. The police reopened the investigation into Fred's murderwith renewed vigor. Otto's testimony and the odd circumstances of his hiddenlife were compelling evidence against Dolly.

With this new evidence, Dolly was once again arrested, andthis time, the case against her seemed much stronger. The police charged Dollywith conspiracy and murder, while Otto was charged as an accomplice. Thesensational nature of the case and the strange details of Otto's hidden life inthe attic captured public attention, making it one of the most talked-abouttrials of the time.

The trial was a media sensation. Dolly's defense team arguedthat Otto acted independently out of an obsessive love for her, while theprosecution portrayed Dolly as the mastermind who manipulated Otto intocommitting the murder. In the end, the jury found Dolly guilty of conspiracy,but the murder charge did not stick due to the lack of direct evidence tyingher to the actual killing. Otto, meanwhile, was convicted of manslaughter.

Dolly served a relatively short prison sentence before beingreleased on parole. Otto's fate was harsher, as he received a longer sentencefor his direct role in the murder. Despite the convictions, the case left manyquestions unanswered, and the bizarre nature of Dolly and Otto's relationshipcontinued to intrigue and baffle the public for years to come.

To back up his speculation, he tells them everything thatOtto had explained to him all those years ago when Herman had gone and met him,and Otto had come out of the attic.

So, I didn't tell you their conversation, but I'm going totell you now, okay?

So, as it turns out, Otto isn't actually Dolly'sbrother—surprise! He used to work as a sewing machine repairman in an apronfactory owned by her husband, Fred, before he died. This was in Milwaukee, notLos Angeles, and at the time, Otto was just a teenager.

Now, occasionally, Fred would bring his wife, Dolly, towork. She was a bit older, in her late 20s, early 30s at the time, but that didnot stop her from developing a crush on Otto, who worked with her husband.

So, one day in 1913, Dolly complained to her husband, Fred,that her personal sewing machine wasn't working properly. She wanted him tosend someone over to the house to fix it. Now, the truth was, her sewingmachine was fine. Presumably, she made this story up because she knew that Fredwould ask Otto to come take care of it.

So, when Otto came over and knocked on the door, Dollyanswered, and she was in nothing but her silk robe and her stockings, so shewas basically naked. Okay, and it wasn't too hard for Otto to guess at Dolly'sintentions as soon as she opened the door. This is all… right…

And from that day forward, the two of them became lovers.Now, we know that by the 1920s, Dolly was very comfortable having affairs. Shewas sleeping with Roy while she was also dating Herman, but in 1913, she wasnew to the idea of cheating. Prior to that, she'd been loyal to her husband,but her marriage had taken a dark turn when their one and only child passedaway suddenly, and it was a huge blow that Dolly and Fred had both struggled tomove past.

So, now Dolly was unhappy, and this was kind of her way oflashing out against Fred. And cheating on him was one way that she could helpherself feel better. She didn't want to get caught, so she and Otto would meetat hotels where nobody knew them. But as time went on, this became impractical.Like, it was a little expensive. You can't just keep going to hotel rooms overand over.

It was actually just a lot cheaper for Otto to come over toDolly's house during the day while Fred was at work, at the same place of workwhere Otto works, and just stay in the attic. Then he'd leave her house beforehis boss came home.

Dude, Dolly's kind of a hoe.

Well, here's the issue. In Milwaukee, this was a problembecause Dolly had nosy neighbors. They couldn't help but notice this young manwho dropped by almost every single day and then spent hours alone with Dolly.And when the neighbors asked Dolly about her visitor, she lied and said,"Oh, it's just my half-brother."

It was similar to the story she told Herman years later,that this half-brother of hers was financially in a bad situation, and he wascoming over so she could help him out. Now, this wasn't the most believableexcuse, 'cause if this guy really was related to Dolly, it didn't make sensethat he'd only come over when Fred wasn't home.

Yeah, in fact, the news got back to Fred that Dolly'shalf-brother was visiting every day, and he was like “What?”

So, he confronted Dolly, and she was like, "Uh, yeah,so I'm actually just having an affair."

And it's not clear if she told Fred who she was seeing or ifthis had any professional implications on Otto. Either way, she promised tobreak things off with her lover, and Fred believed her. He agreed to stay withhis wife and just try to repair the marriage.

But almost immediately, Dolly breaks her promise. She keepssleeping with Otto, and she came up with a way to keep seeing him withoutdrawing the attention of Fred or her neighbors. And what do you think it is?

That is, hide him in the attic.

So, he's 17. She says quit your job and move into my attic.

Okay, she's kind of freaky. One: she's cheating on all herdifferent husbands and lovers, which is not okay. Two: she’s grooming this kidat 17 years old and saying live in my attic so we can have sex with each other.That's scary.

She's like, "Yeah, just quit your job. I'll take careof everything. I'm providing your housing, your food, your toiletries,everything else." He never set foot outside or left the house for anyreason.

My God, 'cause she was like the neighbors can't see you.Like, they know that you're my half-brother now, and they cannot see you leavethe house. Nuts.

So, his world becomes very small. It consisted of the fourwalls of the attic, those books, the typewriter, and daily trips downstairs tospend the day with Dolly until it was time for her husband to come back fromwork. And honestly, it sounds like Dolly just kind of saw Otto as her littlesecret.

But from Fred's perspective, if he'd had any idea what wasgoing on, this was something out of a nightmare. This strange man is living inhis home under his own roof, and he has no idea. Yeah, well, even though Freddidn't know exactly what was going on, he did have some suspicions. He noticedthat food was going missing from the kitchen, and there was no way Dolly waseating all of it. And he occasionally heard noises coming from the ceiling,like something was in the attic. Beyond that, he just got a weird feelingwhenever he was home. He was like something is not quite right. Fred thoughtthis was weird, but whenever he spoke up about these eerie feelings, Dollywould just gaslight him.

She said Fred was just too stressed from his job, he wasimagining things. She also pointed at Fred's tendencies to drink to excess andsuggested that maybe the alcohol was making him paranoid, which is crazy. Andultimately, Fred decided to trust his wife. She told him not to worry about themissing food or what was in the attic or anything else, so he did his best toput everything out of mind.

And meanwhile, Dolly had the perfect setup. She got to playthe role of a loyal wife without drawing too much suspicion. She also got toenjoy the perks of an affair with a live-in lover.

But the arrangement obviously could not last forever. In1918, Fred's business was expanding, and he wanted to open up a new factory inSouthern California.

So, Fred announced that the family was going to move fromMilwaukee to Los Angeles. And Dolly didn't push back on the plan at all. Shesaid she was fine with relocating so long as the new house had an attic.

I don't know what Fred thought of this highly specificrequest. I also don't know if Dolly ever bothered to ask if Otto was justwilling to pick up and move cross-country with her.

I truly don't understand how he is living in the attic thislong without Fred knowing. He has to be so unhealthy, groomed like that. Butthat's just not good for you physically as well, and mentally, obviously, forsure.

So, Fred and Dolly had their house all picked out in LA.They took their time packing up their things in Milwaukee, and meanwhile, shesnuck Otto down and said, "Get to LA somehow, okay? Get to LA on yourown."

So, he then moved into the attic there so he would be allset up and comfortable before Fred and her even got there to arrive in thehouse. So, that setup lasted for four more years. Oh my gosh. Until August22nd, 1922.

This guy is not ever going outside. He's in his mid-20s atthis point. Yeah.

So that day, Fred and Dolly got into an argument, and it'sunclear what they were fighting about, but it was loud enough that Otto couldhear them shouting from the attic. He wasn't used to the two of them being soangry and aggressive, and the first thought in his mind was that Fred might bemad enough to hurt Dolly.

So, intending to protect her, Otto grabbed two guns, atleast one of which was a .25 caliber pistol, and he headed down the stairs. So,he comes out of the attic for the first time with Fred home, and as soon asOtto got within Fred's line of sight, Fred lost his mind.

And this goes back to the question I asked you. I mean,think about it. Fred had no reason to expect anyone else was even in the houseat this point. He thought he was home alone with his wife. So, not only was anarmed man unexpectedly walking down the hallway, it was also someone he'd knownyears ago. Remember, this kid worked for him as a teenager. This kid who quityears ago is now standing in his home with a gun, and he has no idea how he gotin here.

That's... this is crazy.

It was a situation that was impossible to make sense of. Andagain, I don't know if Fred realized Otto was the person Dolly had beencheating with, but if he knew or even suspected it, that had to just add to theintensity of the moment. Plus, Fred was fighting with his wife. His emotionswere already running high. So, just like Garrett said, as soon as he saw him,he ran and attacked Otto.

Oh yeah, okay, so I'm not alone. Me and Fred are one and thesame.

So, the two men began grappling, and during the fight, thegun goes off and it hits Fred three times, killing him. Okay, now, going bythat story, it sounds like Fred's death was kind of accidental. Otto and Dolly,it wasn't like a planned thing that they killed him, but they also knew thesituation didn't look good.

I mean, what police officer was going to believe that acheating wife and her lover who was secretly living in Fred's house for yearshad just accidentally shot him while wrestling with a gun?

And if the gun really went off on accident, it seemed toocoincidental that it hit Fred twice in the chest and then once in the head.That's true.

You'd think some of those bullets would have hit Fred in aless deadly part of his body. Well, rather than deal with the possibility thatthey might be charged with murder, Otto and Dolly came up with a plan to covereverything up.

They knew Dolly's neighbors had probably overheard thegunshots, and they most likely had already called the police.

So, Otto quickly locked Dolly in a closet, latching it fromthe outside, and they assumed correctly, as it turned out, that the policewouldn't be able to hold her responsible if someone else had locked her in thecloset.

Then Otto took Fred's watch, hoping that it would look likea robbery, and then he just went back up into the attic.

That's kind of smart.

He trusted that the police wouldn't think to look for him upthere the same way Fred also hadn't looked for him up there for years. And theplan worked.

Dolly and Otto probably would have gotten away with it ifshe had just been able to keep her mouth shut. But instead, after she moved outof Fred's house, she made the mistake of asking her new boyfriend, Roy, todispose of the murder weapon.

And then she also made a misstep with Herman, her otherboyfriend. She gave him a diamond watch, and as soon as Herman laid eyes on it,he knew that it was the one that was allegedly stolen from Fred during thatdeadly break-in.

Not sure what her thought process was there because ifsomeone gave me a watch that I knew was from a killing, yeah, I'd be scared.

Well, he asked her, he was like, "Is this that watch?Like, isn't this the watch that was stolen?" And she's like, "Yeah,it turns out it wasn't stolen. I just found it under a seat cushion.”

Get out of here.

But now, after the breakup when all of this is coming out,Herman, her attorney, hands over the watch to the police and is like,"Here, take this."

And as for Dolly's other boyfriend, Otto, he continued tolive in Dolly's attic at the new house while she was living with Herman.

So, her husband dies, and instead of saying, "Lover,let's move, you can now come out and we can just date out in the open,"she's like, "No, you're going to keep being my lover in the attic."

That part, I... I mean, I think at that point she's like,it's on purpose. She's a little... she's very messed up, right?

But also think about it this way. When Herman moves in withher, he knows that Otto is up there, but he thinks that it's her brother. Butlike, why not just have him live on the same floor? Yeah, I don't know. I'mconfused too, yeah.

But also, Otto moved in with Dolly in 1913 when he was 17years old. That was 9 years, so 9 years he'd been living in an attic. Maybe hewas just used to it, like maybe he didn't even know how to live in the realworld. And then it would be another year before Roy told anyone to find thegun, and an additional 5 before Herman went to the police to share histestimony.

So, that would be 17 years that Otto spent living aboveDolly's home. That's crazy. He was 34 years old when all of this comes tolight.

That is... there was so much wrong with that, I don't evenknow where to start.

Right?

He'd spent his entire adult life living in his lover'sattic. Mentally, I don't even know how you function in society. You just don'tlive a normal life. And physically, like, there's no way he looks okayphysically, right?

I would not... I would think so. It's insane.

So, here's where things get a little messy. When all thiscomes out, Herman has just come to the police and told them this wild storyabout Dolly keeping a secret lover in her attic for freaking 17 years. And it'shard to take on faith, but it also fits all of the evidence perfectly. Like,this is the theory that makes the most sense.

So, the detectives tried to go to Dolly's house to checkthis testimony out for themselves, and they head up into the attic, and theyfind Otto. Like, Otto is up there just like Herman described.

When they bring Otto into custody, he immediately confesses.He's like, "Yeah, I killed Fred." His story is pretty similar to whatHerman told the police earlier. Otto says he heard Dolly and Fred arguing thatnight, he was afraid for her safety, so he climbed down and he shot Fred toprotect her. So, the homicide was intentional.

But Otto had a good reason to think Dolly was in danger. Hewas saying, "No, like, this was clearly... yeah, I mean, I was trying toprotect her." So, when the police sit down for an interrogation, she saysthe same thing. She's like, "Okay, I know we told Herman the gun went offby accident, but it didn't. Otto did kill Fred, but it was because Fred wasdangerous. Like, he was trying to protect me." And these confessions areenough for the police to charge both Otto and Dolly for Fred's death.

But before their court dates can arrive, they both end uprecanting their confessions and they go back to saying, "No, it was anaccident, the gun misfired, it was all a horrible mistake."

Now, obviously, no one thinks Dolly or Otto are thatbelievable with this whole thing being a mistake. But the fact that they keepchanging their stories isn't really a good look. By this point though, there'sno actual proof that they did hurt Fred intentionally. Frankly, without Ottoand Dolly's confessions, there still wasn't even any way to definitively tiethem to this homicide.

The best the police can do is charge Otto with manslaughter.So, he created a dangerous situation by secretly living in Fred's house and bybringing the gun with him into the fight. Well, during his trial, Otto puts theblame on Dolly. He, at trial, says, "I was basically a prisoner in thishome. Their affair had started out as consensual, but that by the time he'dgiven up his job and got a little older, he was like, 'I just couldn't leave,like there was no escape.'" He goes, "Really, he was as much a victimas Fred."

And the jurors, though they didn't find this argumentpersuasive, they find Otto guilty of manslaughter. Wow, okay.

But this next part is kind of confusing. I've done a lot ofresearch, and none of my sources are very detailed, so I'm not... I mean, we'rein the '20s, '30s. I'm not entirely clear how this happened, but somehow, evenwith a conviction, someone in the court system decides that Otto can't besentenced, that the statute of limitations on manslaughter had passed. Which,again, I don't know how this happens, but the police have no choice but to justlet Otto go.

So, there must have been some legal loophole or somethingback then that wasn't filled, and I... I mean, at this point, he's been in anattic, maybe it is time served, I don't know.

That's true too.

So, the police let him go.

And as for Dolly, in 1930, she's charged with conspiracy tocommit murder, but the prosecutors, during her trial, have all the same problemthe police had during their investigation. There's no proof, and ultimately,her case ends with a hung jury.

No way.

Well, I mean, she didn't pull the trigger.

Yeah, that's true. You're right.

So, I guess at this point, the state decides it's a lostcause to try and get a conviction, and rather than move forward with a retrial,they drop the charges against Dolly.

Okay, so do Dolly and Otto end up together? What happens now?

They walk free, and to this day, nobody has ever actuallybeen convicted of Fred's murder. After her trial, Dolly goes on to settle downwith a new boyfriend. Otto, on the other hand, doesn't get much press coverageafter the police realize they can't sentence him.

It wouldn't surprise me if he just left town and changed hisname. This whole case had taken Otto's whole young life, and it kind ofdestroyed his reputation because the newspapers were almost mocking him. Theygave him the nickname "Bat Boy," which feels disrespectful to Fred'smemory.

It's safe to say this story feels like something you'd findin a novel or a thriller movie. Living in another man's house in secret so youcan sleep with his wife—it's wild that this happened in real life.

As exciting as it is to cover all the different twists andturns, I can only imagine what was going through Fred's mind before he died:confusion, betrayal, heartbreak. So much else in this case, we probably willnever know. And that is the murder of Fred.

It's crazy, living in the attic for years and years andyears, married, and just doesn't care. Why keep getting in a relationship? Whynot just go sleep around then?

Well, it's the '20s, probably '30s, '40s at that point.Great Gatsby. I just think that you had to be married in... What a case. Butalso, how... I mean, I understand that he pulled the trigger and that he didmurder Fred, but for Otto, there's a part of me that's like, you never had achance.

Yeah, it just... things were different, times weredifferent, things weren't studied, things weren't looked at like that. Groomingand stuff, I don't think was so much of a thing. Why not just leave? Why areyou a man? Why aren't you fighting back? It's just different times.

And then, yeah, justto have the husband be dead and now he's probably thinking, "Okay, maybewe can actually be together now," and she says, "No, go back up inthe attic, I'm getting a new boyfriend."

She knew her plan all along. She's evil.

Alright, you guys, that is our case for this week, and wewill see you next time with another episode.

I love it.

And I hate it.

Goodbye.

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